Posts by Juan Viejo2

66

A new start? Watchtower renaming at HQ Columbia Heights

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

friends,.

who was in any doubt that our jw believe is a marketing model, see this pictures of the still existing hq of jw at columbia heights.. earlier comments on jwn that something is going to change in the organisation, these comments are true.. in a few years we will not talk about the watchtower society, we wil talk about jw.org.

i think the current leadership will make a transfer to a new start.

Juan Viejo2

Will we be seeing this very soon?

Very possible, if not probable...

JV

6

Change to Contributions for World Wide Work..Why Not ??

by Poztate in

jw
friends

a letter is soon to be read out at all congregations changing the rbc box from a voluntary thing to a mandated contribution sent in each month based on pledges.

i am sure the thrill of this will soon wear off as congregations are hounded if they fall short of pledges.

i am sure it will be a "local needs" talk at least every second month.. however if it only partially works i can see this happening in another year or so.. brothers (tear comes to his eye) the www is every bit as important as the kingdom hall building funds.

Juan Viejo2

It will probably be just like the political parties in the USA. Contribute during one of their major elections and they come back to you for every Senate and Congressional election, every time a bill is passed, every time a court case comes up, etc. I recently got 33 appeals for money from a political party in one day, all for different purposes. That's when I decided to stop giving them any more of my money.

Churches do this as well. Went to the Saddleback Church in Mission Viejo, California a couple of times with my daughter. There were announcement before the session started, at least three during breaks in the session, a video tag at the end of a short film with music, and a couple more after the main sermon was over. Then when we left, there were at least 6-8 tables set up outside that were asking for money for various special functions.

And just like Paul and Jan Crouch, so much of it goes to buy and build on expensive properties. Amy Semple McPherson went from a nobody to running the biggest and gaudiest church in downtown Los Angeles (The Angelus Temple) by making sure that the plates were passed every 15 minutes where ever she preached.

I'm sure that the Watchtower realizes how much money they passed up by not moving from nationwide radio hookups and their own radio station (WBBR) into TV like so many other sects did. Instead they decided to go for magazine and book publishing for nickels and dimes while everyone else was buying cable and satellite TV time and making gazillions.

JV

25

Lot's last word to his wife

by bamse in

does anyone come after us?.

Juan Viejo2

Not sure what Lot's last words might have been, but here's my guess for Guy Pierce's last words as he breathed his last and said goodbye to his wife:

"We were faking it. All of it. Get out while you can and take the grandkids with you! 'FDS' stands for 'faking, deluded, and self-important...' "

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Neverending - none of my comments were directed to you - and not actually to anyone in particular. You are fine and so are your comments.

My comments were in general to describe my disappointment in how some posters here who are clearly not trolls, will still tend to always try to discredit those of us who are just trying do the right thing or to share something we've been told by someone who has proven their credibility in the past.

While I'd like to continue to share that information, right - wrong - near miss - or too fantastic to believe at times - I am afraid that my contacts will read the negative responses and either stop sharing with me or simply tell me to stop posting any of it on JWN. Remember that they have provided this information to help keep us informed, often at great risk to themselves. One of our insiders was caught and kicked out of Bethel very recently for getting the word out. How do you think he would feel now if the very thing he shared appeared here and the loudest voices immediately called it bogus?

I'm good with everyone here - most of the time. Not that any of that matters. But sometimes I do worry that someone may miss a warning or a critical piece of information because it was shouted down prematurely.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Snowbird - and you've always been supportive to guys like me as long as I've known you...

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Neverending - the BOE letter is just the tip of the story, the very first step. I'm sure the Watchtower will make additional moves after the first letter is read to the congregations and begins to get feedback. Much of this thread is based not so much on that letter, but from other information from insider sources that have proven to be somewhat (and that's a big "SOMEWHAT") credible in the past.

The danger, especially here on JWN, is that when insider information and gossip is shared, the "messenger" (in this case yours truly) tends to become a target, especially by trolls and a certain number of consistent naysayers. Others who have found themselves in this same situation have just given up and will no longer share what they know or what they have heard because they get tired of being targets of abuse here.

I've felt that way myself many times, especially in connection with the Menlo Park scandal and my relationship with AAWA. The question becomes, "Do I stop sharing what I've heard and what I know because I will face accusations and abuse, or do I just let it bounce off and do it for those who are truly interested and enjoy that kind of information?"

One of the glorious things about JWN is how it has become one of the first places to read the latest rumors, to get the facts behind the rumors and other insider information. This is where so many come to get a secret copy of an elder letter or see an audio-video of an insider meeting. That is what makes JWN so special and why, even though I sometimes get more than my share of abuse, I make regular visits back here from time to time.

Because of my websites (Ex-JW.com, WatchtowerWatch.com, JWReport.com) and my relationship as webmaster for AAWA, and I always try to keep my email doors open to all, I am blessed with relationships and connections to many WT insiders at both congregation and HQ levels. I have also been threatened personally at both of those levels - (my wife sometimes worries that one night someone from the Watchtower will come and burn our house down with us in it. Seriously!).

So maybe it's not worth it. I'd hate to think that anyone and everyone that comes to this site to share insider news or gossip should only expect abuse. That is not to say that such "rumors and insider information" should not be closely examined or subject to critique - it just seems so one-sided at times. I haven't dropped off yet, but I am for sure considering it. I'm not usually that thin-skinned, but it is frustrating to get far more negative feedback than one should expect from "friends."

My other fear is that I will lose some of my best insider contacts if they realize that they are essentially casting their "pearls before swine."

JV

29

Creative ways of counting field service time

by 4thgen in

jw
friends

there was a sister in my congregation that signed up to aux pioneer one month to put in 60 hours.

we couldn't figure out why she was never at the arrangements, but yet she said she got in her time early in the month.

we found out later that we wrote a letter that took her an hour.

Juan Viejo2

Undercover - magazines in the windows! Yes, we did that in 1953 and 1958. It was fun. Cars would pass us, honk their horns, then flip us the bird.

When we'd stop at roadside rests (few and far between in those days), other people would come up and look at the magazines in our car windows. My mother and father would go over to them and witness with them briefly, told them we were going to New York for a big Christian convention. One or both would count our stopover time as witnessing work.

Every so often a car would pass us, honking and waving. They were other JWs going to New York too and saw our mags.

At first my dad put a WT on one side of the rear window and an Awake! on the other side. Since we were driving a 1941 Chevrolet sedan, that did not leave much of the rear window to look out through via the mirror. So he moved them to the rear side windows. That was problematic since we could not roll the windows down while he was driving. In those days there were no car air conditioners and the inside of that 2-door sedan became an oven as we drived across the desert. But we lived with it as we were quite dedicated in those days.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

villagegirl -probably not brothers with baseball bats. Loss of privileges, subtle shunning, and leaking gossip should do the trick for most slow-payers.

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

warehouse - While I agree with 90% of what you say, how does that become as "fanatical as organizational JW doctrine?"

What are you saying? That I am as fanatical as the Watchtower? That my contact who is genuinely trying to keep me and others reading this thread informed - is somehow being "fanatical"?

While I do not want to start a cat fight with you or anyone else on this forum, your tossing out snippy little remarks like that does not add to the discussion.

How does this qualify as a "conspiracy." Who among us are working together to use this information to bring down the Watchtower or anyone else?

How is this "fanatical"? Relaying inside information and then critiquing and discussing it is "fanatical"?

I clearly stated in the very first sentence of the fourth paragraph that it was conjecture on my part - not something cast in stone or actually factual. Am I not allowed to express my opinion about the future of Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower without being branded "fanatical"?

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Since it was my contact that implied that at some point elders might sit down with "family heads" and "single brothers" and review their past years' tax returns to see it they could agree on how much could be donated on a regular basis - let me clarify and add my own 2p to the mix:

Such a move would most likely be "voluntary" or "suggested" as a way to "help the brothers" calculate what would be "fair and reasonable for them."

But we all know what "voluntary" and "suggested" would mean in a Watchtower environment. Remember that 1975 was only "suggested" by Fred Franz as the "possible arrival of Armageddon." Look what JWs did in the years prior to that - selling properties, quitting jobs, moviing to where the "need was greater." The Watchtower often uses this approach to ease the flock into something that they will later establish as hard and fast policy.

Also remember that those who are approached and "offered this" financial counseling will be hard pressed to refuse because of the hammer of "resisting the direction of Jehovah's organization" can lead to loss of privileges and accusations of being "spiritually weak." We all know where that leads. It's all WT blackmail and intimidation. We see it in action as almost an ingrained method of getting compliance.

I can see it being handled this way: "Brother Wimply. Perhaps we could sit down and discuss your family's finances to see if we can help you budget for your planned (weekly, monthly, quarterly) donation amount. (In the USA) you can deduct those donations on your income taxes. Perhaps we could have Brother H. R. Block sit down with you at a computer and see if a larger donation would be offset by increased tax deductions - thereby not creating an undo burden on you or your family. This is purely voluntary on your part, but the elder body wants to be sure that everyone is carrying their fair share of the congregation's commitment to the worldwide preaching and building work. This tax review is another loving arrangement provided by Jehovah to help you."

The Watchtower might even come up with a computer program that would do this on a local laptop manipulated by a trained elder or MS. Bringing along last year's tax forms would be "voluntary" (yeah, sure!), but without them (the elders would reason convincingly) an accurate estimate could not be calculated.

It is true, at least in the USA, that some taxpayers will actually increase their contributions by a substantial amount on the advice of their accountant or tax advisor. A difference in net income could move them down to a lower tax bracket or allow them to take additional deductions in another category (medical expenses, for example). If the brother owns his own business, especially as a sole proprietor or LLC, and makes the contribution from a business account rather than a personal account - the benefits might actually put him in a far better tax bracket.

I think this was the possibility that my contact was hinting at for further out in the future. Maybe, if the Watchtower has been following this thread, talk of such a possibility and the ramifications might make them re-think implementing such a policy. Or, maybe it was all just a false rumor and now we have given the Watchtower something to actually consider doing in the future.

Who really knows? I certainly don't. But as my contact emphasized in our last conversation, "They don't call rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses 'the other sheep' without good reason. The majority will drink the kool-aid and do what they are told. Those that don't will give up their families. Tax returns? Petty stuff and not a big deal to the average JW, especially married brothers with dedicated sisters for wives."

All we can do is watch. All we know is that there is something afoot at WT headquarters and we will see a lot of changes in coming months to rival what we have seen since the Governing Body declared themselves the "Slave."

JV